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	<title>Comments for CoryLuLu.com</title>
	<link>http://corylulu.com/wordpress</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 02:21:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Theory of Atheism by Chris</title>
		<link>http://corylulu.com/wordpress/3#comment-110</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 23:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://corylulu.com/wordpress/3#comment-110</guid>
		<description>As I post this, you are already aware that, based on relatively recent evidence, the universe is no longer thought to be closed; to end in a "big crunch" whereby it will eventually contract back into the singularity (or "tiny ball") from which it came. Instead, the universe is now thought to expand indefinitely. And, as you are also now aware, this makes impossible the oscillating universe model on which your argument is based. However, as I will attempt to explain, this is actually little matter as an oscillating universe doesn't do away with God as well as you thought it did anyway.

In a comment to the MySpace version of this blog, one of your friends challenged you by asking, "who created the big bang?" To this you retorted that "[t]he timeline is circular...[i]t's a never ending cycle that's start is also the end." Your friend retorted back that "that still doesn't explain why it does it...why is the big bang happening?...atheism just doesn't answer that question." I extend to you that he is right, and purport to explain why.

Assuming hypothetically an oscillating universe, the logical flaw in your argument is most evident in your graphical depiction of time. In illustrating the circularity of time, you depict many iterations (or instances, in programing terms) of the same universe continuing around a circular timeline. However, while time &lt;I&gt;is&lt;/I&gt; circular in an oscillating universe, your depiction is inaccurate. What your diagram doesn't take into consideration is that right now we would have to be in one of those many iterations, &lt;I&gt;irrespective of the fact that we would also exist in the same form and at the same time within all of them&lt;/I&gt;. Once we implement this into your diagram, its flaw becomes apparent:

&lt;img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/d4_ph03n1x/timecircbad.jpg"&gt;

As you can see, your diagram implies that after 15 further iterations of the universe we will return to this iteration. But because each iteration is the same a last, this effectively makes no logical sense. Further, I understand that your decision to portray 16 total iterations was completely arbitrary. But that you were forced to pick an arbitrary number of iterations should have signaled to you that something was wrong. The following image illustrates the proper way to depict the circularity of time in an oscillating universe:

&lt;IMG SRC="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/d4_ph03n1x/timecircgood.jpg"&gt;

However, because each iteration of the universe is, in this model, both necessarily preceded and succeeded by another iteration, we can extrapolate from this diagram an illustration that depicts these multiple iterations. Instead of a circle, though, we get a straight line:

&lt;img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/d4_ph03n1x/timecircline.jpg"&gt;

This depiction underscores the problem: where did iteration &lt;I&gt;a&lt;/I&gt; come from? If you look again at our proper depiction of the circularity of time in an oscillating universe, you'll see what we are actually being faced with is a chicken-or-the-egg problem: what came first, and where did &lt;I&gt;that&lt;/I&gt; come from? However, it could be argued that iteration &lt;I&gt;a&lt;/I&gt; should actually be set equal, not to 1, but to &lt;I&gt;i&lt;/I&gt; minus infinity. But this effectively answers nothing. If the process is infinite in both direction, where did the process itself come from? &lt;I&gt;Why&lt;/I&gt; does this &lt;I&gt;particular&lt;/I&gt; process &lt;I&gt;necessarily&lt;/I&gt; exist? "It just does" doesn't cut it: Why not some other process? Why any process? Why does &lt;I&gt;anything&lt;/I&gt; exist at all? This is the logical hole (or gap) that your friend was referencing, and, needless to say, it is one with which religious proponents are all to ready to fill with God--the very thing you thought an oscillating universe refuted.

In conclusion, whether the current model of the universe is opened or closed, oscillating or not, should have no bearing on your atheism given that God can (unfortunately) be smuggled into each of them. Instead, your goal need be to illustrate why God is a no more plausible solution to this problem than anything else we might imagine. Indeed, your recent blog on &lt;a href="http://corylulu.com/wordpress/22" rel="nofollow"&gt;Gaps, Science, and the Anthropic Principle&lt;/a&gt; takes a good step in that direction.

&lt;3

&lt;I&gt;[this comment was extracted and modified from my original response]&lt;/I&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I post this, you are already aware that, based on relatively recent evidence, the universe is no longer thought to be closed; to end in a &#8220;big crunch&#8221; whereby it will eventually contract back into the singularity (or &#8220;tiny ball&#8221;) from which it came. Instead, the universe is now thought to expand indefinitely. And, as you are also now aware, this makes impossible the oscillating universe model on which your argument is based. However, as I will attempt to explain, this is actually little matter as an oscillating universe doesn&#8217;t do away with God as well as you thought it did anyway.</p>
<p>In a comment to the MySpace version of this blog, one of your friends challenged you by asking, &#8220;who created the big bang?&#8221; To this you retorted that &#8220;[t]he timeline is circular&#8230;[i]t&#8217;s a never ending cycle that&#8217;s start is also the end.&#8221; Your friend retorted back that &#8220;that still doesn&#8217;t explain why it does it&#8230;why is the big bang happening?&#8230;atheism just doesn&#8217;t answer that question.&#8221; I extend to you that he is right, and purport to explain why.</p>
<p>Assuming hypothetically an oscillating universe, the logical flaw in your argument is most evident in your graphical depiction of time. In illustrating the circularity of time, you depict many iterations (or instances, in programing terms) of the same universe continuing around a circular timeline. However, while time <i>is</i> circular in an oscillating universe, your depiction is inaccurate. What your diagram doesn&#8217;t take into consideration is that right now we would have to be in one of those many iterations, <i>irrespective of the fact that we would also exist in the same form and at the same time within all of them</i>. Once we implement this into your diagram, its flaw becomes apparent:</p>
<p><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/d4_ph03n1x/timecircbad.jpg"/></p>
<p>As you can see, your diagram implies that after 15 further iterations of the universe we will return to this iteration. But because each iteration is the same a last, this effectively makes no logical sense. Further, I understand that your decision to portray 16 total iterations was completely arbitrary. But that you were forced to pick an arbitrary number of iterations should have signaled to you that something was wrong. The following image illustrates the proper way to depict the circularity of time in an oscillating universe:</p>
<p><img SRC="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/d4_ph03n1x/timecircgood.jpg"/></p>
<p>However, because each iteration of the universe is, in this model, both necessarily preceded and succeeded by another iteration, we can extrapolate from this diagram an illustration that depicts these multiple iterations. Instead of a circle, though, we get a straight line:</p>
<p><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/d4_ph03n1x/timecircline.jpg"/></p>
<p>This depiction underscores the problem: where did iteration <i>a</i> come from? If you look again at our proper depiction of the circularity of time in an oscillating universe, you&#8217;ll see what we are actually being faced with is a chicken-or-the-egg problem: what came first, and where did <i>that</i> come from? However, it could be argued that iteration <i>a</i> should actually be set equal, not to 1, but to <i>i</i> minus infinity. But this effectively answers nothing. If the process is infinite in both direction, where did the process itself come from? <i>Why</i> does this <i>particular</i> process <i>necessarily</i> exist? &#8220;It just does&#8221; doesn&#8217;t cut it: Why not some other process? Why any process? Why does <i>anything</i> exist at all? This is the logical hole (or gap) that your friend was referencing, and, needless to say, it is one with which religious proponents are all to ready to fill with God&#8211;the very thing you thought an oscillating universe refuted.</p>
<p>In conclusion, whether the current model of the universe is opened or closed, oscillating or not, should have no bearing on your atheism given that God can (unfortunately) be smuggled into each of them. Instead, your goal need be to illustrate why God is a no more plausible solution to this problem than anything else we might imagine. Indeed, your recent blog on <a href="http://corylulu.com/wordpress/22" rel="nofollow">Gaps, Science, and the Anthropic Principle</a> takes a good step in that direction.</p>
<p>&lt;3</p>
<p><i>[this comment was extracted and modified from my original response]</i></p>
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		<title>Comment on Gaps, Science and the Anthropic Principle by corylulu</title>
		<link>http://corylulu.com/wordpress/22#comment-109</link>
		<dc:creator>corylulu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:16:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://corylulu.com/wordpress/22#comment-109</guid>
		<description>I think the next blog will be about memes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the next blog will be about memes.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Letter To A Christian Nation by Kevin</title>
		<link>http://corylulu.com/wordpress/12#comment-107</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 01:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://corylulu.com/wordpress/12#comment-107</guid>
		<description>Go Cory Go. There are also 2 creation stories by the way. And with the new testament look at the two lineages of Jesus' supposed heritage and they are different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Go Cory Go. There are also 2 creation stories by the way. And with the new testament look at the two lineages of Jesus&#8217; supposed heritage and they are different.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Letter To A Christian Nation by corylulu</title>
		<link>http://corylulu.com/wordpress/12#comment-106</link>
		<dc:creator>corylulu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://corylulu.com/wordpress/12#comment-106</guid>
		<description>The contradictions that I speak of are thing like the 7 day creation (in the idea that god created the cosmos in 6 days with no reference to sun  or planet revolving around it. Although most theist will argue that the days were arbitrary and that days for god are different than days by men. But in that case, why would God need time at all to make it, he already knows what he's gonna make and its not like God has to think because he already knows the answer), Also there is the omniscient, omnipotence god which is a paradox in itself ("Can omniscient God, who knows the future, find the Omnipotence to change His future mind?" Karen Owens), along with several other things that are cleverly masked by Creationist or given a paradoxical explanation that in the gist of things doesn't make sense with there other numerous claims.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The contradictions that I speak of are thing like the 7 day creation (in the idea that god created the cosmos in 6 days with no reference to sun  or planet revolving around it. Although most theist will argue that the days were arbitrary and that days for god are different than days by men. But in that case, why would God need time at all to make it, he already knows what he&#8217;s gonna make and its not like God has to think because he already knows the answer), Also there is the omniscient, omnipotence god which is a paradox in itself (&#8221;Can omniscient God, who knows the future, find the Omnipotence to change His future mind?&#8221; Karen Owens), along with several other things that are cleverly masked by Creationist or given a paradoxical explanation that in the gist of things doesn&#8217;t make sense with there other numerous claims.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Letter To A Christian Nation by Danielle</title>
		<link>http://corylulu.com/wordpress/12#comment-104</link>
		<dc:creator>Danielle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://corylulu.com/wordpress/12#comment-104</guid>
		<description>I agree, you either have to accept the full Bible or you can't call yourself a Christian. I don't see the "contradictions" people speak of. And I love how you brought up the "free will" thing because I've always had a problem with that as well. I believe in Predestination, that is we do not have free will and God has predestined every single thing. People like to believe that they have free will because they think it would be unfair of God to do that, but who are we to judge what is fair if we wouldn't be here in the first place without Him? There are many versus in the Bible that support this view, as well as Preterism (we don't believe the whole "Rapture" sci-fi view). A lot of modern Christianity is completely misunderstood but if you stick to what the Bible says and not your Pastors you can't go wrong!

When I saw an article about this I thought you might be interested because you like controversy. I haven't read it and I don't know what to think but I'm interested. Check out www.galileowaswrong.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, you either have to accept the full Bible or you can&#8217;t call yourself a Christian. I don&#8217;t see the &#8220;contradictions&#8221; people speak of. And I love how you brought up the &#8220;free will&#8221; thing because I&#8217;ve always had a problem with that as well. I believe in Predestination, that is we do not have free will and God has predestined every single thing. People like to believe that they have free will because they think it would be unfair of God to do that, but who are we to judge what is fair if we wouldn&#8217;t be here in the first place without Him? There are many versus in the Bible that support this view, as well as Preterism (we don&#8217;t believe the whole &#8220;Rapture&#8221; sci-fi view). A lot of modern Christianity is completely misunderstood but if you stick to what the Bible says and not your Pastors you can&#8217;t go wrong!</p>
<p>When I saw an article about this I thought you might be interested because you like controversy. I haven&#8217;t read it and I don&#8217;t know what to think but I&#8217;m interested. Check out <a href="http://www.galileowaswrong.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.galileowaswrong.com</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Gaps, Science and the Anthropic Principle by Rebecca</title>
		<link>http://corylulu.com/wordpress/22#comment-103</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 05:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://corylulu.com/wordpress/22#comment-103</guid>
		<description>i rly like the sudoku analogy
it really ties it together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i rly like the sudoku analogy<br />
it really ties it together.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Gaps, Science and the Anthropic Principle by Kevin</title>
		<link>http://corylulu.com/wordpress/22#comment-102</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 05:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://corylulu.com/wordpress/22#comment-102</guid>
		<description>Well i love sudoku. So that means i like science. Which i do. Wow this works out. But since i read this while playing Brawl i probably won't remember all of it....
Just kidding. Sort of, cause i was playing brawl. Still playing brawl.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well i love sudoku. So that means i like science. Which i do. Wow this works out. But since i read this while playing Brawl i probably won&#8217;t remember all of it&#8230;.<br />
Just kidding. Sort of, cause i was playing brawl. Still playing brawl&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>Comment on Theory of Atheism by incestcurious</title>
		<link>http://corylulu.com/wordpress/3#comment-97</link>
		<dc:creator>incestcurious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://corylulu.com/wordpress/3#comment-97</guid>
		<description>Thats a different kind of view about it, I am sure not everyone will agree on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thats a different kind of view about it, I am sure not everyone will agree on it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Anthropic Principle -prewrite- by Brandi</title>
		<link>http://corylulu.com/wordpress/21#comment-96</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 22:35:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://corylulu.com/wordpress/21#comment-96</guid>
		<description>testing testing 123</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>testing testing 123</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Anthropic Principle -prewrite- by Kevin</title>
		<link>http://corylulu.com/wordpress/21#comment-95</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://corylulu.com/wordpress/21#comment-95</guid>
		<description>Also as I am not that educated in these areas its good to read. I am looking forward to the other people's comments (ie Chris) cause i learned much from his comment on the God/Infinite. Guess i need to get to reading that list you gave me....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also as I am not that educated in these areas its good to read. I am looking forward to the other people&#8217;s comments (ie Chris) cause i learned much from his comment on the God/Infinite. Guess i need to get to reading that list you gave me&#8230;.</p>
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